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Forums " WORKSHOP" => Alimentation, Electricité => Discussion démarrée par: perjmolsen le Mardi 03 Janvier 2017, 13:45:38 PM

Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mardi 03 Janvier 2017, 13:45:38 PM
Hi

Fist of all sorry that i write in english in a french forum, but it is the only forum that i have found where there is a person who might be able to help me with my Sega Gloc power supply.

I have read this tread http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=28660.0  abaut restoring a PSU for a sega gloc deluxe - and first of all I am impressed!!!

I hope that "GC339" is readin my post because i would like to ask for his help :) (if possible)

So now to my question - I have also a defective PSU and i have changed some components, but there is a resistor that i am unable to find on ebay.

Its abaut 2 cm long and has legs almost 1mm - The color codes are Red-Red-Gold-Gold
If i type the color codes into a resistor calculator i get 2.2 Ohms 5%

But all the resistors that i have found physically smaller in size.
I do not know the voltage of the resistor, i assume that it sets the size of the resistor?

I have attached a photo of the resistor that I need - then i hope that you can help me identify it.
Also attached a picture of the place where the resistor is located.

And last i with that i where just as smart as "GC339" or that i lived in france and not i denmark
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mardi 03 Janvier 2017, 13:47:38 PM
Resistor:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170103134727-perjmolsen-Resistor.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170103134727-perjmolsen-Resistor.jpg)

Location:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170103134802-perjmolsen-Placement-of-resistor.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170103134802-perjmolsen-Placement-of-resistor.jpg)

Components that i have changed:
Transistor:
4xS20LC20u
4XK1250
4XS20LC40

Transistors on pcb (location)
q40
Q9
Q8
Q6
Q11

PC1

IC2

WAITING FOR
TR1
IC1
R24


PCB with changed components
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170103140112-perjmolsen-20170103-135105.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170103140112-perjmolsen-20170103-135105.jpg)

PCB other side
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170103140201-perjmolsen-20170103-135130.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170103140201-perjmolsen-20170103-135130.jpg)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: Fred G5 le Mardi 03 Janvier 2017, 15:50:50 PM
This resistor is probably a Flameproof Type, 2 or 3W power, 500V

I hope that it can help you ;)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mardi 03 Janvier 2017, 18:45:07 PM
Hi

Thanks - Ill order some of them :) that shoud be the last compnents that needs replacments
(with my basic skills to identify them)

Then i hope that i have found and replaced all the defective components, so when i turn on the power nothing blows up
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: Vieille_Loutre le Mardi 03 Janvier 2017, 19:40:06 PM
Hi,

don't give up, gc339 has done a fantastic work, thanks to him i was able to repair my pcb.

if i can give you a advice, don't forget to replace your olds 78L15 and 78L05. These little bastards are voltage regulators and i think they were the cause of massive damage on my board...  :-\

good luck !
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mercredi 04 Janvier 2017, 00:00:53 AM
Hi.

Why do you need to replace R24 ?

Is it cut or burned ?
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 04 Janvier 2017, 14:55:19 PM
Citation de: Vieille_Loutre le Mardi 03 Janvier 2017, 19:40:06 PM
Hi,

don't give up, gc339 has done a fantastic work, thanks to him i was able to repair my pcb.

if i can give you a advice, don't forget to replace your olds 78L15 and 78L05. These little bastards are voltage regulators and i think they were the cause of massive damage on my board...  :-\

good luck !

Hi

Thanks for the info - I will also order those then and change them just to be sure.
I refuse to give up, and not after that i found the guide from GC339 I hope that i am able to get the one power supply fixed.

Kind regards
Per
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 04 Janvier 2017, 15:01:48 PM
Citation de: gc339 le Mercredi 04 Janvier 2017, 00:00:53 AM
Hi.

Why do you need to replace R24 ?

Is it cut or burned ?

Hi GC339

First of all - Thanks for your guide :)
I hope that i have the skills to get the PSU fixed.
Ill do my best :)

The reson that i change the R24 is that i am unable to messure any resistance in the transistor i get OL at the multimeter in Ohms test, then i think is broken.

Kind Regards
Per
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mercredi 04 Janvier 2017, 18:15:05 PM
According to the body color of this resistor, I think like Fred G5 that it must be a flame-proof resistor.
Although it's better, but it's not an absolute necessity to replace it with a resistor of the same type.
An ordinary resistor, power 2 or 3 watts, should be suitable. You can also try a wire-wound resistor, power 5 ou 7 watts.

If this resistor is cut, it must have acted as a fuse and transistor Q1 is probably short-circuited. Check it and pay attention to L2, some windings of its coils could also be short-circuited.

PS : Data about the windings of L2 are written on this draft : http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=28406.msg453306#msg453306
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 04 Janvier 2017, 21:06:31 PM
Citation de: gc339 le Mercredi 04 Janvier 2017, 18:15:05 PM
According to the body color of this resistor, I think like Fred G5 that it must be a flame-proof resistor.
Although it's better, but it's not an absolute necessity to replace it with a resistor of the same type.
An ordinary resistor, power 2 or 3 watts, should be suitable. You can also try a wire-wound resistor, power 5 ou 7 watts.

If this resistor is cut, it must have acted as a fuse and transistor Q1 is probably short-circuited. Check it and pay attention to L2, some windings of its coils could also be short-circuited.

PS : Data about the windings of L2 are written on this draft : http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=28406.msg453306#msg453306

Hi

Thanks so moutch for all your help :)

Hmm.. I am unable to find the Q1, can you point me in the right direction on the PCB?
Ill try to see if i can figure out how to test if the L2 is short-circuited
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mercredi 04 Janvier 2017, 23:03:42 PM
Q1 is the transistor on the heatsink, just at right of the red circle.

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170103134802-perjmolsen-Placement-of-resistor.jpg)

To check L2, you must measure the resistance and the inductance of each winding (refer to the values I wrote on the draft (http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=28406.msg453306#msg453306)) and then check insulation between coils which must be infinite.

This kind of tool (chinese sellers on eBay) will be helpfull to measure both inductance and resistance of any coil.

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20160413000511-gc339--57-1-.JPG)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 08:00:09 AM

Oh that one thanks :)

I already have that tool, i did not know that i coud use it to test coils also :)

Thanks again :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 12:01:01 PM
Hi

Just a another question ;)

The resistors at location:

R81 and R63 seems to be a 22 ohms 5% (Red-Red-Black-Gold)in my defective PSU

My working PSU that i have  55 ohms 5%(Green-Green-Black- Gold)

So what type of resistor is correct? I have searched for a 55ohms resistors online but only able to find 56 ohms resistors at ebay.

A last question - when replacing resistors, does it matter if it a four or five band resistor? As log as the ohms is the same - then the tolerance is smaller at five band.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 12:47:47 PM
Hi

Some parts just arrived from china ... BUT not the ones that i have ordered.

I need to replace the TR1 - as in the guide i had ordered M8GZ47 from china.. BUT recived M8GZ46 (10 of them)

Would that be fine as TR1 replacement?
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 15:17:25 PM
Citation de: perjmolsen le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 12:01:01 PMThe resistors at location:
R81 and R63 seems to be a 22 ohms 5% (Red-Red-Black-Gold)in my defective PSU
My working PSU that i have  55 ohms 5%(Green-Green-Black- Gold)
Are you sure R63 is the right reference ? Is not it rather R69 ?
The value of these resistors depends on the release of the motor driver board, this is 22 Ω for the reference 400-5117 (not suffixed) and 56 Ω for the 200-5117Y ("Y" suffixed).
Take a look at the first tab of this chart (OpenOffice Calc File) : http://www.gamoover.net/gc339/SEGA/Nomenclature.ods

Citation de: perjmolsen le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 12:01:01 PMMy working PSU that i have  55 ohms 5%(Green-Green-Black- Gold)
So what type of resistor is correct? I have searched for a 55ohms resistors online but only able to find 56 ohms resistors at ebay.
A 5% tolerance implies that this resistor may not have a value other than one of the E24 series (http://www.logwell.com/tech/components/resistor_values.html), so 56 is the right value.
The second green ring is probably due to a momentary lack of blue paint during manufacturing. Have you measured the value of these resistors?

Citation de: perjmolsen le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 12:01:01 PMA last question - when replacing resistors, does it matter if it a four or five band resistor? As log as the ohms is the same - then the tolerance is smaller at five band.
You case use resistors with a better tolerance than 5%. Some values of the E48 or E96 series do not exactly fit those of the E24 series so it's necessary to choose the nearest value or at least one within the ± 5% range.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 17:48:55 PM
Citation de: gc339 le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 15:17:25 PM
Are you sure R63 is the right reference ? Is not it rather R69 ?
The value of these resistors depends on the release of the motor driver board, this is 22 Ω for the reference 400-5117 (not suffixed) and 56 Ω for the 200-5117Y ("Y" suffixed).
Take a look at the first tab of this chart (OpenOffice Calc File) : http://www.gamoover.net/gc339/SEGA/Nomenclature.ods
A 5% tolerance implies that this resistor may not have a value other than one of the E24 series (http://www.logwell.com/tech/components/resistor_values.html), so 56 is the right value.
The second green ring is probably due to a momentary lack of blue paint during manufacturing. Have you measured the value of these resistors?
You case use resistors with a better tolerance than 5%. Some values of the E48 or E96 series do not exactly fit those of the E24 series so it's necessary to choose the nearest value or at least one within the ± 5% range.

Oh i did not know that there where differences between the boards and som of the components =?=
Ill check up on the components that i have changed matches the correct value on the boards.
A quick look in the chart and compareing with the components, it seems that the defective board is the SEGA 400-5117 - and my working board is SEGA 400-5117Y.

Again thanks for your help, and also the component chart  ^-

I just need to figure out if the M8GZ46 can be used in TR1


 
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 18:32:36 PM
Citation de: perjmolsen le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 17:48:55 PMAgain thanks for your help, and also the component chart
All the links (components chart, schematic draft..) I gave do not come out of nowhere, they aren't hidden and are included inside the two main threads about these motor driver boards :

Citation de: perjmolsen le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 17:48:55 PMI just need to figure out if the M8GZ46 can be used in TR1
Coming soon...
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 05 Janvier 2017, 21:46:19 PM
Hi

Regarding the TR1 - I have mixed it up with another part ...

The replacement for TR1 is BT138-600E (mentioned here http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=28660.80)

The part i also have ordered on ebay, but not yet recived
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mardi 17 Janvier 2017, 12:30:58 PM
Hi

Just an small update - just comment / correct me if i am missing something :)

1. I am still waiting for the "R24" resistor to arrive from china.  :-\
I have also tested the old resistor in my "china component tester" it reeds as 2.6ohms, a bit high i think? so i do want to solder it in again. So i have not yet tested the "L2" transformer. - do you think i need to when the resistor seems to be fine?

("Q1" also seems to be fine - i have compared it with a new K1535 in my tester and they reeads the same values)


2. I have changed all the 78L15 and 78L05 with some new ones - i tested the old one's in my tester, and they gave different results, so i think that it where good that i replaced them. ^-


3. Replaced some of the Ceramic Disc Capacitor's (104) - 25V, they looked burned but when i tested them they tested OK, but changed them anyway.

4. Changed TR1 to a BT138-600E

5. Changed IC1

6. My board is the SEGA 400-5117 the D20,D22,D24,D26 is according to the component chart S20LCA20, but i am only able to find S20LC20U. Does it matter? are the two comonents not identical?



.. So i hope i am ready to power it on when i receive the R24 resistor... and hopefully no smoke.. i pray that the powersupply works  ^-^
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Dimanche 22 Janvier 2017, 15:05:42 PM
Hi

Latest update... i have now turned on the power.. but no 12V or 5 Volt are present.  :'(

I have removed the solder bridge and de-solder the L2 transformer, and i am trying to understand the diagram here http://hico-srv022.pixhotel.fr/sites/default/files/gamoovernet/20130822135915-gc339-ConverBT.GIF

How do i find leg one?

The L2 transformer has 12 legs in total - where is leg one?
I have attached a picture og the transformer:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170122150359-perjmolsen-20170122-145852.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170122150359-perjmolsen-20170122-145852.jpg)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Dimanche 22 Janvier 2017, 15:14:53 PM
Hi

I if test the L2 this way i get 65PF... is that corect?
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170122151445-perjmolsen-20170122-151239.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170122151445-perjmolsen-20170122-151239.jpg)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Lundi 23 Janvier 2017, 09:19:10 AM
Hi

I figured out how to find the corect legs at L2 and messure the coils.. hint.. look at the schematics  ^-^

If i use my china tester i get some funny results? (25-25pF between eatch coils).. i guess that it is the tester who is to cheap  :)

If i messure the Ohms with my multimeter i get followig messurements:

1-6 = 0.4 ohm
2-5 = OL
3-5 =0.4 ohm
3-4 = 5.3 ohm
7-8= 0.6 ohm
10-11 0.5 ohm
13-14 0.5 ohm

So no coils are dead, is that correct... then why do i not have 12V or 5V...  :'(
I have removed the solder bridge.

Can it be one of the D20-D26 who are defect? can it trigger a shutdown of 12V

Im a bit stuck... i hope someone can give me a hint.. (GC339 maybee) :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Lundi 23 Janvier 2017, 12:04:19 PM
Sorry, I missed the last messages.

Pin 1 is indicated by the truncated (or rounded) corner. Then you need to count the pins clockwise when you look at the bottom of the item or in a counterclockwise direction if you look at it from its top. Free places (not equipped with pins) must also be numbered for the count to be right.
F and S wires are those which are directly soldered on the printed circuit.


(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170123111437-gc339-L2.PNG) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170123111437-gc339-L2.PNG)

The resistance of the windings seems a bit too high regarding the one I measured, it seems you failed to take in account the additional resistance inserted by the ohmmeter wires.

This kind of tester you use should be able to measure inductances, please check this ability on the Chinese seller's advertisement.
The display of a winding check should look like this :

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170123121143-gc339-Inductor.PNG) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170123121143-gc339-Inductor.PNG)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Lundi 23 Janvier 2017, 14:35:37 PM
Hi GC339 ;)

My tester can messure inductances (according to seller)

It seems that it is the wire+aligator clip who is causing my tester to mailfunction...constant get (25 pF)  if i test a component directly in the tester it testes fine.. if i test the same component with the extention wire, then it fails. >:D ( I just have removed the plactic cover over the aligator clip and the solder where cold..dammit! why did i not think of that before!) I just made a new wire and soldered the aligator clip on and now i can read with wires

Dammit and i have just solder the L2 transformer back in the PCB..  >:D and i guess i need to test it outsite pcb.. then there is no other option thant to de solder it one more time

Is there a way that i can check that there is power to the L2 transformer... i think if i have missed a dead component before the L2 transformer...maybe a component is causing it not to get powered..

Thanks again for your help.. ^-
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mardi 24 Janvier 2017, 10:28:01 AM
Hi Gc339

If i need to check that there is power to the L2 transformer - is it then possible to measure it at points marked below?

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170124102625-perjmolsen-power-into-L2.PNG) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170124102625-perjmolsen-power-into-L2.PNG)

I guess that there need to be 220V at the test points?

(sorry for the maybe dumb questions, but i am trying to learn as i go forward)  ;)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mardi 24 Janvier 2017, 21:03:35 PM
Firstly, it is not advisable to do these measurements with the PCB connected directly to the mains. It's safer for you to supply it through an isolation transformer.

Then remove the solder jumper to disconnect the four power VMOS of the H bridge, as I did at 1ère Etape

At the indicated test points you must measure a DC voltage of 310V (220Vac × √2).
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mardi 24 Janvier 2017, 21:42:26 PM
Then remove the solder jumper to disconnect the four power VMOS of the H bridge, as I did at 1ère Etape

I have removed the solder jumper  ^-


At the indicated test points you must measure a DC voltage of 310V (220Vac × √2).
[/quote]

Just to be completly sure, the test points are those i have marked with the red circle here:?

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170124102625-perjmolsen-power-into-L2.PNG) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170124102625-perjmolsen-power-into-L2.PNG)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 26 Janvier 2017, 21:28:49 PM
Godafternoon :)

I have made som tests today, to figure out why i do not have 12V or 5V

1. If I made a diode test with my multimeter at the bridge rectifier mountet in circut i get the following:

Positive test lead at + and negative on "wavy lines" i get 05.30ohm - if i reverse that OL, seems OK?

Positive test lead at + and negative on - i get 10.08 ohm - if i reverse that OL, - thats a bit high is that correct? i think its caused because it is messured in circut.

2. If i messure the voltage at the bridge rectifier, with leads connected to + and - i get 248,9V DC - Thats quite low? is not? it shoud be 310V - so it might be the cap's at C8 and C9 who is bad?

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170126211411-perjmolsen-Volt-at-bridge.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170126211411-perjmolsen-Volt-at-bridge.jpg)

3. If i test the C8 and C9 (in circut) i get 818 uf.
UPDATED: I have de-solder the C8 and C9 and messure them 806 uF ESR=0.01 ohm and 828 Uf and ESR=0.02 ohm

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170126220457-perjmolsen-Cap.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170126220457-perjmolsen-Cap.jpg)

Can it be the low voltage it is causing the 12V and 5V not to be present?

4. I allready have som new 1000Uf 200V caps, if i messurfe them (out of circut) i get 894 uF.

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170126213917-perjmolsen-new-cap.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170126213917-perjmolsen-new-cap.jpg)

I think, and hope, if i change the C8 and C9 the voltage will rise to 310V and the 12V would be present, or am i at the wrong track?
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 26 Janvier 2017, 22:33:53 PM
"Good" afternoon again....

So now i soldered the two new caps in... but still only 243.6V messured at + and - at the bridge rectifier.  :bail:
What am i doing wrong.. nearly crying.. i have hoped that i have had 340V and also 12V at this point...

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170126223256-perjmolsen-new-cap-mounted.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170126223256-perjmolsen-new-cap-mounted.jpg)

Is my new "china" caps bad also? i have messured them at 894 Uf ESR=0.04 ohm

A nightmare.. but i refuse to give up.. but i need help again :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Jeudi 26 Janvier 2017, 23:09:52 PM
Citation de: perjmolsen le Jeudi 26 Janvier 2017, 21:28:49 PMIf i messure the voltage at the bridge rectifier, with leads connected to + and - i get 248,9V DC - Thats quite low? is not? it shoud be 310V - so it might be the cap's at C8 and C9 who is bad?

≈249VDC measured between the outputs "+" & "" of the bridge rectifier would mean 176VAC between the inputs "~" of this bridge. Are you sure your mains voltage is OK? Have you measured it?
For exemple, here at home in France, the mains voltage is about 240 VAC and the rectified voltage sets around 340 VDC.


(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170126225205-gc339-PwrSupply.PNG) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170126225205-gc339-PwrSupply.PNG)

Are you sure R1 & R2 are OK ?

Is the DC voltage at the terminals of C8 equal to that at the terminals of C9?
Are these also equal to half the voltage at the output of the rectifier even if you only measure 249VDC?
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Vendredi 27 Janvier 2017, 09:07:54 AM
Hi GC339  :D

Thanks for your reply  :-)=

1. The mains voltage coming out of the socket here in Denmark is abaut 230V AC.
I will check the voltage at the "wavy lines" on  bridge rectifier and let you know what that measures.

2. I have not checked the R1 and R2
I will de solder them and measure them and let you know the result

3. I will also try to measure the voltage between the C8 and C9 terminals and let you know.

A huge thanks one more time - now i have some steps to preform and get a bit closer  ^-
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Vendredi 27 Janvier 2017, 16:56:12 PM
Hi

Just an update.

Regarding the R1 and R2 resistors - I have de solder them and they are dead! - so you naild it GC339  ^-

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170127165346-perjmolsen-R1-R2.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170127165346-perjmolsen-R1-R2.jpg)

I just have ordered 5pcs of 5W 1.2 Ohm at ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162137410017?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=461108678563&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Hopefully they will arrive soon :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Vendredi 27 Janvier 2017, 21:41:27 PM
It's rather strange these two resistors were cut at the same time.
They are only involved each time the power is switched ON just to limit current through capacitors C8 & C9, they are then short-circuited by TR1 in established and steady operation.

The plausible explanation is that TR1 cut itself first, so they had to undergo all the load to finally burn themselves.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Samedi 28 Janvier 2017, 00:13:00 AM
Hi

Yes its strange, but i think you explanation is corect  - its so exiting to get the new resistors and mount them  :-)=
I have ordered them in UK this time, so hopefully i get them at the end of next week. ^-

If i had placed an order in china i'll have to wait a month before i get them and the diffrence where that i coud get 15 resistores instad of 5 for the same price - but i only need 2 for this project.

(I have two more powersupplys for the g-loc who also are dead, but i only need this one to work them i have two working for my G-loc)

Kind regards
Per
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Samedi 28 Janvier 2017, 11:40:20 AM
When I must order from a Chinese seller, I prefer those based in Hong-Kong rather than mainland China because the items usually arrive home in less than two weeks.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 02 Février 2017, 22:18:29 PM
Hi and good evening.. :)

So now finally the new transistors for R1 and R2 arrived.
I have soldered them in, now i got 320 DC Volt  ^- a step in the right direction at last .

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170202221632-perjmolsen-new-R1-and-R2.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170202221632-perjmolsen-new-R1-and-R2.jpg)

BUT still no 12V or 5V present... dammit!  >:D

Have i overlooked something...?
- Must i de-solder the L2 transformer one more time and test it now i have fixed my tester.. or is there some other component.

HELP! :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Vendredi 03 Février 2017, 13:41:02 PM
Here is the schematic of the low voltage power supply :

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20130822135915-gc339-ConverBT.GIF) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20130822135915-gc339-ConverBT.GIF)

Q1 & L2 are the main parts of a blocking oscillator :

So, it's necessary to first check involved components in the blocking oscillator : transistors (Q1 &Q2), diodes (D4 ... D6, ZD1 & ZD2), resistors, capacitors...
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mardi 07 Février 2017, 20:29:57 PM
Hi GC339

Sorry for the late answer to your post.

I do not know if it helps, I have tried to measure if there is any volt present at the input of the L2 transformer. (I guess that's the input)

I have messured 0V at the two marked test points below at the back at the PCB.


(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170207202434-perjmolsen-L2-back-Ink-LI.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170207202434-perjmolsen-L2-back-Ink-LI.jpg)

And so far i have tested:
Q1 = Checks OK
Q2 = Checks OK
D4 = Checks OK (0.470 ohm one way and OL other way)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mardi 07 Février 2017, 21:56:10 PM
Citation de: perjmolsen le Mardi 07 Février 2017, 20:29:57 PMI have tried to measure if there is any volt present at the input of the L2 transformer.
To check voltage at the primary of L2, it's better to measure it between one of the two lite-blue surrounded points and one leg of R4. (are you sure R4 is OK?)

It's possible the DC/DC converter can't start due to a short circuit or an overload in an auxiliary supply. This possibility can be eliminated by desoldering one leg of diodes D1, D3, D9 and D10 (D8 must remain in place because the +12 volts is mandatory for voltage control to work).

Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 08 Février 2017, 10:44:26 AM
HI  :D

Regarding the R4 - i previously have replaced it with a new resistor, so i shroud be OK - but ill de-solder it and test it, just to be sure :)

I'll also try to test test input of the L2 by leg of R4 and one of the blue marked points and let you know what reading i get.

And also try the de-solder one leg of D1,D3,D9 and D10. to see if thats give me 12V

Thanks again :)

Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mercredi 08 Février 2017, 12:13:00 PM
Citation de: gc339 le Mardi 07 Février 2017, 21:56:10 PMTo check voltage at the primary of L2, it's better to measure it between one of the two lite-blue surrounded points and one leg of R4. (are you sure R4 is OK?)

Sorry, I was not careful enough and I made a mistake, it's R24 and not R4. So you must read :

CitationTo check voltage at the primary of L2, it's better to measure it between one of the two lite-blue surrounded points and one leg of R24 (are you sure R24 is OK?)


Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 08 Février 2017, 12:19:58 PM
HI

OK, thats funny.. when i looked at the items i had changed.. I looked at R24 and not R4, and where also planning to check R24 :)
But anyway.. ill check it, thanks for the update :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 08 Février 2017, 21:21:20 PM
Hi GC339

Just a quick update :D

I have measured between R24 and both of the blue circled test-points.
I have 328V in to the L2 transformer. ^-
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170208211850-perjmolsen-L2power-in.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170208211850-perjmolsen-L2power-in.jpg)

I have to go to work early tomorrow,so no more testing tonight...but tomorow i will test R24 and de solder one leg of D1,D3,D9 and D10. to see if thats give me 12V
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mercredi 08 Février 2017, 22:22:07 PM
Can you try with the other leg of R24 ?
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 08 Février 2017, 22:29:13 PM
HI

I just tested with the other leg of R24 - also 328V present at both the blue circled marked test points.
Then the R24 might be good? it is also brand new :)

I have to try out the de soldering of one leg of D1,D3,D9 and D10. to see if thats give me 12V - then take it from there i guess..

Kind Regards
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mercredi 08 Février 2017, 22:47:18 PM
Citation de: perjmolsen le Mercredi 08 Février 2017, 22:29:13 PMI just tested with the other leg of R24 - also 328V present at both the blue circled marked test points.
Then the R24 might be good? it is also brand new

With this last measurement I am quite sure R24 is OK.

Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 09 Février 2017, 09:36:41 AM
Hi

Just a quick question, regarding the de soldering..

The D1 diode, thats the bridge rectifier, are you sure that one of them i need to de-solder? if i de-solder one leg, will i not loose the power? i case witch leg?

I have de-soldered the following diodes at tested them in the china tester
D9 Tests as diode uf=575mv c=12pf
D10 Tests as diode uf= 580mv c= 11pf
D3 Tests as diode uf=585mv c=15pf

With the D9,D10 and D3 de solder still no 12V at fan outlet - but i gess that might be due to D1.. but i am not sure witch leg to de solder.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Jeudi 09 Février 2017, 19:54:32 PM
Sorry again, I forgot to postpone the second digit "1" when I drew the draft of the DC/DC converter (summer 2013), so it's  D11  and not D1


(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170209200426-gc339-Draft.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170209200426-gc339-Draft.jpg)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 09 Février 2017, 21:10:22 PM
HI G339

No problem :)

I have de-soldred the D11 also - and messured it too, it reads in tester:  diode Uf=581 mv c=11pf

switched power on at the pcb, and put the test probes at the fan outlet,no 12V present :(

I have double checked the Q1 a K1535 it checks OK in the tester:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170209212801-perjmolsen-K1535.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170209212801-perjmolsen-K1535.jpg)

Also checked the Q2 a C1627A .. but in the component cart is ony a C1627..no "A" DO I have put in the wrong component..? when i check it:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170209212944-perjmolsen-C1627A.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170209212944-perjmolsen-C1627A.jpg)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Jeudi 09 Février 2017, 21:55:25 PM
Have you checked all the components inside the blue-sky layout ?


(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170209215348-gc339-Draft.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170209215348-gc339-Draft.jpg)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Vendredi 10 Février 2017, 08:23:06 AM
Hi GC339

No i have not yet tested them all - I will have the components de-soldred to night and test them in my china tester :)
I will let you know the result :)

Kind regards
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 15 Février 2017, 10:45:02 AM
Hi Gc339

Sorry for the delay but I did not have any spare time this weekend to test the components.
But now i have tested the components and there might be two who is defective

D5 - I have tested the diode in citcut and i get 0000V (in diode mode test - both ways), if i test in conecticvity i get a short.
ZD1 - the same result, if i test in circut i get 0000V (in diode mode test - both ways) if i test in conecticvity i get a short.

If i am correct the D5 and ZD1 is defective, correct? - if so i need to figure out where to get that componets on ebay..

If i look D5 up in your chart it is a S118? what is that? :)
And ZD1 is 13Z, how to find them?

The ZD1 is this the one? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121782360886?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Note..As a diode reference in circut i have also tested D6+D7 also in citcut i get 0,514V when black test lead to black on diode, and OL the other way - so thats reads correct.

All the other tested components reads OK according to your component chart (tested out of circut in china tester)

R25= 10,24k
R23=179,8k
C15= 10,4 uf esr=170ohm
R22=46,5k
R28=4,7
R28=2,4
R26= No component
R24= 220
R21a= 69,9
R21b=68,7
Zd2= Diode uf=719mv C028pf
D6= Black test lead on black stripe on component - 0,514v - reverse leads OL
D7= Black test lead on black stripe on component - 0,514v - reverse leads OL
D5= Short (tested in Circut)
Zd1= Short (tested in circut)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: Vieille_Loutre le Mercredi 15 Février 2017, 13:22:58 PM
I had the same issue with somes S118 witch were on the PWM side of the board.
gc339 told me:

"Ca y est, selon la norme japonaise JIS, c'est une diode de signal avec préfixe "1S" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS_semiconductor_designation)
c'est donc une 1SS118 Hitachi. Datasheet : http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets2/17/17939_1.pdf
Une 1N4148 devrait faire l'affaire quoique l'intensité admissible par cette dernière soit moindre."

Hope he can confirm you this ;)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mercredi 15 Février 2017, 17:03:02 PM
Yes, S118 is the shortcut for the japanese reference Hitachi 1SS118 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JIS_semiconductor_designation)

About the 13Z diode, sure it's a zener diode but the suffix is unknown. So I am unable to certify it's a 13 volts item, for example it exists the 1SZ13 diode which is a 36 volts zener!
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 15 Février 2017, 18:44:20 PM
HI

Thanks for claifying the items.

The D5, the 1SS118 I have orderd some on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182455364389?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT - then i jusy need to wait

Regarding the ZD1, 13Z - if i order some of theese 13V here..  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121782360886?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

If i check a 16Y zener (as referenze) in this catalog it's a 16V zener.. so i think but i am not sure that a 13Z is a 13V?
https://www.sos.sk/pdf/SMD_Catalog.pdf

And if they are the wrong one's would they burn up if it is the wrong component?
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mercredi 15 Février 2017, 18:53:06 PM
The best way to know the zener voltage of diode 13Z is to measure it on the other diode 13Z (ZD02) which is normally OK.

Here is a simple checker schematic. It should be suitable for measuring a zener up to 15 volts, otherwise it will require a voltage source higher than the two 9 volts batteries.


(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170215185413-gc339-Zener-diode-voltage-test.png) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170215185413-gc339-Zener-diode-voltage-test.png)

Here another measure which unfortunately requires a more sophisticated apparatus : http://jestineyong.com/how-to-measure-the-voltage-rating-of-a-zener-diode/
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 15 Février 2017, 19:44:06 PM
Hi Gc339

I have now tested the ZD02 as in the diagram abowe.
I have 17,18V in my to batterys.

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170215210057-perjmolsen-zener-test-zd02.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170215210057-perjmolsen-zener-test-zd02.jpg)

And when the Zener diode is connected it drops to 14,1V
So it must be a 13V Zener.. i do do not seems to find any 14V zener diode on ebay?
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 15 Février 2017, 21:03:18 PM
This ones maybe?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121782360886?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Mercredi 15 Février 2017, 22:03:15 PM
Zener diodes have a certain accuracy and the 14 volts you measured are always within the tolerance range of 10% of the expected 13 volts.
So 13 volts is the right value (E24 serie) and 0,5 watt of max power should be OK.

The diodes of the link you gave do not have a manufacturer reference and this is a bit disturbing. It will be advised to measure them with the checker before soldering.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 22 Février 2017, 20:38:22 PM
Hi

I have now recived Zenner diodes and tested one

The "ZD1" / 13V zenner diode tests as 14,8V

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170222203810-perjmolsen-Zenner.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170222203810-perjmolsen-Zenner.jpg)

Also recived the part for "D5" some 1N4148

So now time to solder them in and see if there is 12V
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 23 Février 2017, 21:15:10 PM
Well...

I soldered the "ZD1" zenner diode in, and also D5
The diodes D9,D10,D3 and D11 where still not soldered in.

Then i turned on the power and 12V at the FAN outlet  :-)= :-)=

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170223211201-perjmolsen-12V-yayy.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170223211201-perjmolsen-12V-yayy.jpg)

The i soldered the D9,D10,D3 and D11 in - and turned on the power
12V still at FAN outlet... and the suddenly BANG and i lost the power in my room..and a smell.. FUCK!

I think that the L2 now is dead... is smells bad... Dammit! so close then back to start, and now i might be unable to fix it...

Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 23 Février 2017, 21:17:01 PM
A picture of the damaged arera... i am unable to upload the smell...

so so sad....

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170223211650-perjmolsen-Smell.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170223211650-perjmolsen-Smell.jpg)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Vendredi 24 Février 2017, 10:17:12 AM
Hi Again...

I have found the reason why it blow up... When soldered the D3 diode in i have turned it the wrong way!
I always check my work.. but this time overlooked one with fatal consequences...

FUCK! >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D

I have another Power supply laying who also is dead... i might be able to salvage the L2 transformer from this and turn around the D3 diode BEFORE applying voltage...
But i wonder if there might has been more damage to this, so it might be a bad idea..

What are GC339 verdict? :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Dimanche 05 Mars 2017, 10:28:16 AM
Hi

Well.. i have testet the L2 transformer from the other PCB who where defective, and it seems that is is defective also..

The picture below shows my tests with my multimeter.
The one labeld "New salvage" is the transformer from my salvage PCB, and the other named "old" is the one that i blew up by turning the D3 diode the wrong way.. note I have also de soldred the D3 diode, it there broken i half..

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170305100502-perjmolsen-l2-salvage-test.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170305100502-perjmolsen-l2-salvage-test.jpg)

So i think that where the final nail, not to get my Sega Gloc up and running  :'(
I am unable to find any transformers named PQ2016 on the web.. I have only found them on two pages, but they do not respond to my emails.

BUT!

2 chance in getting my gloc up and running

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170305103235-perjmolsen-2-chance-psu.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170305103235-perjmolsen-2-chance-psu.jpg)

I have a third and final PCB, the one i have been working on also.
I have managed to get the 12V and 5V present  ^-,
But there is no movement when i mount it in my g-loc, and i do not have the tools or the skills to use a oscilloscope, so that i can not test it.
The following steps in the guide is spon on http://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=28660.0

Step2: 12V and 5 Vold is present according to guide
Step3: 7V and 5V is present according to guide

Step4: Input 17V, ZD3 15V, PC7=5V,PC8=5V
Note changed "Q12" before the change of "Q12" there where 15V at PC8 (leg8) -> It may be the reason for the missing movement, that PC8 is dead due to high current?

Step5: test in step "A"  is spot on 15V and 5V Step "B" is spot on 15V and 5V
Step6,7,8: Tested the diodes - all checks fine in the china tester according to guide.
Step9: Unable to test, no skills
Step10:Unable to test, no skills
Step11:Unable to test, no skills
Step12: Tested sensor with solder iron and multimeter, it checks out good.
Step13:Unable to test, no skills
Step14:Unable to test, no skills

When i test it in my g-loc (i have one working PSU)
Then the g loc rises one in one side, the side where the woring PSU is mounted, if i run a test and try to power the PSU that i have fixed there is statc on the screen, and i can hear a humm but no motion at all.

So now i am dead in the water, and realy in need of rescue :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mardi 14 Mars 2017, 10:06:38 AM
Hi

Just an update of repairing my 2nd PCB -

I have all the required voltages - but no movement at all when it is mounted in Gloc.
Therefore the problem must be in the control logic part, and having no oscilloscope and do know how to use it - then i have tried to find another way to diagnose the no movement issue.

I have tried to measure  the PC910's on the PCB,  by measuring ohm,s between the annode (leg2) and cathode (leg3)
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170314100054-perjmolsen-PC910-snip.PNG) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170314100054-perjmolsen-PC910-snip.PNG)

The following PC910,s i am unable to measure any ohms between PC2,PC3,PC4

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170314100156-perjmolsen-PC910-fails-secound-pcb.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170314100156-perjmolsen-PC910-fails-secound-pcb.jpg)

So i have ordered some new from this seller
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10PCS-PC910-DIP8/32407984936.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.1.qwq8KF&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_433_434_10136_10137_10138_10060_10062_10056_10055_10054_302_122_10059_10099_10103_10102_10096_10052_10053_10050_10107_10051_10106_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10037_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10122_10123_10126_6000000_10124-10037_10077,searchweb201603_7,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_0_default&btsid=a1db6fc0-cae5-44ab-ab65-dfbdef414702&algo_expid=ae35951f-36ee-4d26-8c44-48cd8fa1062e-0&algo_pvid=ae35951f-36ee-4d26-8c44-48cd8fa1062e

I hope that brings me closer to movement :)

Do i have overlooked something else? (what says GC339?)    ^-

Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 29 Mars 2017, 20:36:56 PM
Hmm... I wonder if GC339 has left the planet  :(

I do not hope that my questions has scared him  :-[

I need his expert advice  :D

Kind regards
Per
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Lundi 17 Avril 2017, 08:04:30 AM
Hi

A small update

Second powersupply(the one where all the volts are OK):

I have changed the three PC910 optocuplers and still bo movement when i mount it in the g-loc. (so i do not think that the old ones where defective at all)

If i make a motor test then there is some static on the screen and a small humm but no movement at all.
I have also changed the two caps at C36 and C18

Does anybody have expirenced the same when they had restored a powersupply?

First powersupply (the one where I burned the L2 transformer):
I have made a deal at a chineese company at alibaba.com, I have send the defective L2 transformer, PC2019 to china and they have made 10 new L2 transformers and shiped them yesterday, only 17 dollars, so hopefully when they arive i can get to work on that powersupply also.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 20 Avril 2017, 12:20:33 PM
Hi

Whuu  :-)= A GIANT step for me!

I finally got some movement, I have changed ZD6 and ZD7 with some new 16V zener diode (the old ones where shorted)

Now i have movement, but it stays in upright position in that side where i have mounted my repaired powersupply. The other side does self test ok up and then down.

I have checked that the switches are OK - also if i switch the powersupplys the problem moves to the other side.

So there must be something that controls down movement in the powersupply... but where  :-\
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Vendredi 21 Avril 2017, 12:05:59 PM
YES! AT LAST!!!  :-)= :-)=

ZD11 where the reason for the missing down movement! -> It where shorted!
I changed that to a new one, and FINALLY after nearly 3 years without movement IT MOOVES!! ITS ALIVE!!!  ^-

Check it out here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xo8k730kgn03095/Gloc_working_2017mp4.mp4?dl=0

The funny thing is that the power supply that i have rebuild is faster in movement than the other one, but you do not notice it when the game plays, only in test mode.

--
Then i just wait for the Chinese to send me some new L2 transformers.. then i might also be able to rebuild the first power supply where i fried the L2 transformer.. then if i am so lucky i have a repaired spare  8)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: Vieille_Loutre le Vendredi 21 Avril 2017, 22:29:40 PM
great job ! :) it's really beautiful to see a such amazing cab comming back to life... and your cab looks great! show us more! :p
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Samedi 22 Avril 2017, 07:09:43 AM
Hi

Thanks for the nice words, i will find some pictures of the restoration process,and post them.
If someone also need to replace the L2 transformer on the PCB, then here is the specification for it.

I am waiting for 10 L2 transformers to arrive from china, then i will attack the two last power supplys that i have, hopefuly i can restore them also, now i have a better understanding of that electronics ( I hope)  :D or just pure luck

The spec document can be downloaded here https://www.dropbox.com/s/nhiun74mj9whwna/K352%2BPQ20169Y17%20Mingyuda.pdf?dl=0


Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: Little_Rabbit le Mercredi 26 Avril 2017, 12:47:55 PM
Hi,

Thanks for sharing with us your success and your joy ! :)

It's really great to see such a kind of simulator working again  ^-^ !

Thanks also for your offer about the extra inductors L2 !
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 26 Avril 2017, 14:00:00 PM
Thanks - but....

yesterday when i where playing.. suddenly a burning smell


(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170426135702-perjmolsen-20170425-191140.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170426135702-perjmolsen-20170425-191140.jpg)

It seems that it is due to a bad connection

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170426135734-perjmolsen-20170425-195225.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170426135734-perjmolsen-20170425-195225.jpg)

But i have no 5V at IC2, leg 8 - I have changed the L7805 at IC1. And there is 7V at D3
All the other volts are present, I have to dig into it...

UPDATE: I think that i have traced it to that the "upper" connection on IC1 at the middle leg is not connected - this is the input from D3... so therefore no 5V output.
Ill keep you updated when i get it fixed :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 27 Avril 2017, 12:17:58 PM
HI

An update - it where just some bad connections, now 5V are present - and i have re tested all the other volts one more time. Tested in the Gloc and everything works  :-)=

Hopefully it stays that this time :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mardi 09 Mai 2017, 18:09:13 PM
Whuu..

Just an update

I just had recived the 10 L2 transformers from china :)


(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20170509180900-perjmolsen-L2.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20170509180900-perjmolsen-L2.jpg)

Now i can get to work restoring my last two powersupplys so if all goes well i have two spares  ^-

Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: corner-tech le Mercredi 20 Février 2019, 12:50:33 PM
Hello there.
I'm new to this forum, and I've been following the adventures of repairing the Sega motor controller with great interest. You all seem to be the only people on Earth who are really serious about keeping these machines alive - congratulations.
I'm a technician in Australia and I've been working on repairing one of these units.
The chopper FET (Q1) shorted and burned the PCB track between pin 6 and the emitter of Q2. Possibly Q2 failed and then killed Q2. Many other things burned which is not too bad, and I can replace. But my worst fears have been realized: The little L2 transformer is dead. The winding between pins 1 and 6 is open.
Did perjmolsen ever try one of the China re-build transformers with success ? I Would like to buy 2 of them.

Thank you in advance.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 20 Février 2019, 13:18:48 PM
HI

Yes I got some L2 transformers from China - but the first ones I ordered i only had around 12V at the testpoints where i needed to have 15V.
All the other voltages where fine, just the 15V where around 11-12V and i do not now if the 15V is needed...maybe GC339 can confirm is 15V i is needed, or 12V is fine?

So I had order some more from china, but i have not tested them yet, so I do not know if they are OK.
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190220131818-perjmolsen-L2-picture.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190220131818-perjmolsen-L2-picture.jpg)


I will send you two completely free, if you just pay for the shipping. ^-

Just send me a PM with your address, and i will try to figure out what the shipping cost could be.
I hope that you get your G-loc up and running - I would like to see some pictures of the restoration process. :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 20 Février 2019, 13:44:29 PM
Just some tips - my last restore (https://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=40992.0)

I have put some (TO-220 Heat Sink) on the Q20 and Q22 (K1250)
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190220135833-perjmolsen-TO-220-Heat-Sink.PNG) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190220135833-perjmolsen-TO-220-Heat-Sink.PNG)

I think the missing cooling causes them to blow up.
So get some heat sinks and termal grease and mount them  ^-^

Also if you change the PC910 - then get some DIP8 sockets, and put the new PC910 chips in sockets, then they are easier to change next time.
(hopefully there will be no next time) :)

And my G-loc still runs  ^-^
A 2019 video of my gameroom -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBDr0JaW7uw&t=4s
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: corner-tech le Vendredi 22 Février 2019, 05:09:47 AM
Hey that's a nice game room !

My boards already have aluminium heatsink tabs bolted to Q20 and Q22   :D

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190222044811-corner-tech-repair-2.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190222044811-corner-tech-repair-2.jpg)

While I'm waiting for the L2 transformer from perjmolsen, I was trying to understand what went wrong in the first place.
He's how I see it: TR1 (triac) failed and put 340v on its gate, this caused the 78L05 to short and blow out IC2 (dual opamp), D3, C13, Q1, D5, ZD1, Q2, ZD2 and L2, in that order !  Of course I'll never be certain, but my theory seems to match the circuit layout for which I congratulate gc339 - thank you for your fine work  ^-

Speaking of circuit layout, I found a small error. gc339 has drawn R23 and C15 in parallel when they are in series (at least on the 2 boards I'm looking at). Note that the layout shows another C15 across D6: It is actually C16.
Also the collector of PC1 was incorrectly drawn connected to the node of R22, Q2 and R27. The collector of PC1 is actually connected to the node of ZD2 (cathode), R23 and pin 1 of L2.
Similar to this layout extract:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190222044954-corner-tech-not-quite-motor-driver-circuit-extract.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190222044954-corner-tech-not-quite-motor-driver-circuit-extract.jpg)
It's hard to see, but note the collector of PC1 connects to the node of the zener, transformer, and resistor. The emitter of PC1 goes through a diode to the base of the transistor.

Here is my corrected version of gc339's  low voltage power supply:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190222045128-corner-tech-motor-driver-low-voltage-circuit-corrected-SP.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190222045128-corner-tech-motor-driver-low-voltage-circuit-corrected-SP.jpg)
Note that the capacitor across D6 is marked as C15 - it should be C16.
I think also that the markings for the beginnings of each winding of L2 is incorrect: I believe the dot shown is indicating the END of each winding.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: Little_Rabbit le Vendredi 22 Février 2019, 13:34:10 PM
Hi,

Citation de: perjmolsen le Mercredi 20 Février 2019, 13:44:29 PM
A 2019 video of my gameroom ->

Wow !! Your gameroom is fantastic Per !!  :o

Pinballs, dedicated cabs, including sitdown race cabs, a cocktail table, a pool table, pachislots, etc !

It's so varied and so well arranged ! Your bar corner and its jukebox is awesome too ! ^-^

You must be very proud and vey happy with such a nice gameroom : a complete success !  :-)=

Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Lundi 25 Février 2019, 10:15:12 AM
Citation de: corner-tech le Vendredi 22 Février 2019, 05:09:47 AM
Hey that's a nice game room !


Hi

Thanks  :D I am also proud of my room  :D but i need more space.

Super to follow your repair  ^-- I hope that the L2 transformers arrive soon.

Your IC 9-10-11-12 (78L05 / 5 volt regulators) might also be dead and give over 5V
I have learned if they put out over 5V then the PC910 might also be fried, and need to be replaced.

Also remember to test the big diodes, the Q19 and Q22 seems always to be the one who go bad first.

Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Lundi 25 Février 2019, 10:16:57 AM
Citation de: Little_Rabbit le Vendredi 22 Février 2019, 13:34:10 PM
Hi,

Wow !! Your gameroom is fantastic Per !!  :o

Pinballs, dedicated cabs, including sitdown race cabs, a cocktail table, a pool table, pachislots, etc !

It's so varied and so well arranged ! Your bar corner and its jukebox is awesome too ! ^-^

You must be very proud and vey happy with such a nice gameroom : a complete success !  :-)=

Thanks  ^-^
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: corner-tech le Lundi 25 Février 2019, 12:40:23 PM
Yes. Quite right about other devices failing which might be unrelated. I found IC2 was dead, and it's not directly part of the low voltage power supply using L2. I tested IC2 with the OP-AMP tester I built for another repair project (vintage drum synthesizer) which had dozens of OP-AMPS:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190225123302-corner-tech-repair-3.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190225123302-corner-tech-repair-3.jpg)

For now, I put the G-Loc project aside, awaiting your L2 transformers  =:))
When I install the new transformer, I'll have to check EVERYTHING very carefully before I turn it on.

Cheers for now!


Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: corner-tech le Samedi 02 Mars 2019, 14:05:02 PM
Hi all.

Thanks to Per and his very fast shipping, I have received 3 beautiful new L2 transformers ^-^
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190302134812-corner-tech-repair-4.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190302134812-corner-tech-repair-4.jpg)

After testing EVERYTHING else, I installed the new L2 and tested.... No smoke or burning  :D
The main 12v supply is perfect  ^-
The 15v "delay" supply is perfect   ^-
It seems though, that the other 15v windings are still not enough. In theory, as they use a 78L15, we need at least about 17v on the cathode of the rectifying diode (eg. D11). The 78L15 has about a 2v dropout voltage (depending on the manufacturer), so we need 15+2=17v.
I adjusted trim pot (marked "VR2 +5v") on the 12v rail up to 12.6v, as it's the reference, and I can now get 15.1v on the cathode of D11 which is still not really enough to supply the 78L15  :(
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190302135232-corner-tech-repair-5.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190302135232-corner-tech-repair-5.jpg)
The 78L15 gives out about 14.5v  :(
I've not tested anything else.

Where to from here....?    :'(
Maybe find a low dropout 15v regulator as a replacement for the 78L15 ??
Does anyone have any ideas ?

Cheers for now.


Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Samedi 02 Mars 2019, 14:33:14 PM
Hi

Super that they made it to you, and also relativly fast  ^-^
I hope that someone have a solution for the low volts issue.
Love to follow your repair  ^-


Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: corner-tech le Samedi 02 Mars 2019, 14:43:03 PM
Hi Per.

Thank you for the transformers  ^-^
You are so kind to send them so quickly !

You mentioned that the first batch of transformers had low 15v. So you had another batch made.
I have a copy of the "Specification for approval" for the first batch.
What exactly was made different in the second batch of transformers ?

Cheers.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Samedi 02 Mars 2019, 14:49:45 PM
Hi

I told them that the 15v where low, but i do not know what they have changed, I also asked them for the datasheet for the new ones but i newer got it.

They wrote that they have changed the number of windings on the 15v side.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: lencouet le Samedi 02 Mars 2019, 15:01:31 PM
Si vous avez 15 volts alternatif en sortie du transformateur ca doit faire env 17 volts une fois redressé non?
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: corner-tech le Dimanche 03 Mars 2019, 12:09:07 PM
Hi all.

Yes, ordinarily we might get 17Vdc from 15Vac, but we have half-wave rectification, and not a sine wave. Plus it also depends on the load...... But you will see below it's all much simpler....

Per, I was thinking about the 15V windings on your transformers. In theory, all 15V supply windings should be the same, right?  So why does the 15V-delay supply provide about 18Vdc before the zener-transistor regulator... :? This is what I want from the other 15V supply windings after rectification, so the 78L15 regulators (IC5 and IC6) can function correctly.
What's different ?

If I measure, with the multi-meter, the cathode of one of the (low) 15V supplies, I get 15.1Vdc (as my last post shows).
BUT now looking at the waveform with the Oscilloscope shows something quite wrong:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190303110233-corner-tech-old-cap-2uSdiv-2Vdiv.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190303110233-corner-tech-old-cap-2uSdiv-2Vdiv.jpg)
...there's about 8V of ripple  >:(
The 15V-delay supply has a 470uF capacitor. So I temporarily connected a 470uF capacitor across C30 in the low 15V supply. It gave 18V  ^-
Now I begin to wonder about the original capacitor, C30   ):)
I took out C30 which was supposed to be 47uF but it measures a few hundred pF  >:D
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190303111405-corner-tech-repair-7.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190303111405-corner-tech-repair-7.jpg)
It's almost as if there is no capacitor !!!!
No wonder there is so much ripple !
(I tested at 10KHz, as the supply is switching at about 90KHz, but the tester does not go higher in frequency. A new capacitor measures correctly at 10KHz)

I replace C30 with originally specified 47uF low ESR and get very little ripple:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190303111600-corner-tech-new-cap-2uSdiv-50mVdiv.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190303111600-corner-tech-new-cap-2uSdiv-50mVdiv.jpg)
As you can see, there is about 250mV ripple, which is acceptable  ^-

More importantly, I get almost 18V before the 78L15:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190303111739-corner-tech-repair-6.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190303111739-corner-tech-repair-6.jpg)
Of course the 78L15 regulator IC6 is now giving 15V as expected  ^-

I did the same on the other 15V supply, and checked C28. It was also a few hundred pF   >:D
I replaced C28 and everything is good  :-)=

In summary, it seems that the L2 transformers from Per are good  ^-^
Thank you again, Per, for getting the transformers made and sending some to me. I can't thank you enough  8)

The golden rule is to check the filter capacitors, or just replace them if there is any doubt. I found out the hard way, and spent a lot of time looking for a problem which turned out to be quite simple  :-[

It might be worth checking or replacing all of your small electrolytic capacitors (eg. C13, C28, C30, C25, C26, C27, C19, C20, C21, C36, C18), it might solve (or prevent) all sorts of strange problems  :D

Next step is to put the triac back in, as well as the OP-AMP and 5V regulator for the logic circuits.

Cheers for now.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: lencouet le Dimanche 03 Mars 2019, 12:24:37 PM
bravo
c'est un peut a ça que je pensé et c'est vrais qu'il vaut mieux travailler avec l oscilloscope que le multimètre
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Lundi 04 Mars 2019, 23:40:26 PM
Citation de: corner-tech le Dimanche 03 Mars 2019, 12:09:07 PM

In summary, it seems that the L2 transformers from Per are good  ^-^
Thank you again, Per, for getting the transformers made and sending some to me. I can't thank you enough  8)

The golden rule is to check the filter capacitors, or just replace them if there is any doubt. I found out the hard way, and spent a lot of time looking for a problem which turned out to be quite simple  :-[

It might be worth checking or replacing all of your small electrolytic capacitors (eg. C13, C28, C30, C25, C26, C27, C19, C20, C21, C36, C18), it might solve (or prevent) all sorts of strange problems  :D

Next step is to put the triac back in, as well as the OP-AMP and 5V regulator for the logic circuits.

Cheers for now.


Hi

Whau - nice job  ^-^ and I am happy that my L2 transformers are working  :-)=

I have just looked in my excel sheet from when I tried to use one of my L2 transformers, an ran into the problem with low 15V.
As i can see I had changed C28 and C30  them to new 47uf... but I need to check visual at my two "spare" power supplys, if I have mounted 4.7UF... I can be... 

Nice work restoring! - also all your super discovery If just I know how to use an Oscilloscope  :D
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Mercredi 20 Mars 2019, 10:48:58 AM
Hi corner-tech

Some new status?   :D
Are the g loc up and running ?
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: corner-tech le Samedi 30 Mars 2019, 08:10:46 AM
Hi all,
Sorry it's taken a while to get back to you.

I finally put in the triac, as well as the OP-AMP and 5V regulator for the logic circuits.
I don't think I mentioned previously, but I removed the solder jumper which connects the 380VDC to the main output MOSFETs.
After I apply power, all voltages are correct. The red LED comes on also. I think it's all working.

I didn't have access to the G-Loc machine, but I still wanted to test the H-bridge. Here's how I did it:
If the PWM generator is set for 50%, then the motor should run at about 50% speed, but probably not, as the reduced power and load are not matched to the H-bridge. Adjusting the PWM duty cycle from 0% to 100% should vary the speed of the motor, from full speed to stopped. The LED on the G-loc motor controller will also vary in brightness, but it's not a linear device, so it will change from full bright to dark with only a few percent (%) change in duty cycle.
If you ground the free wire (pin 5 of CN3) to the PWM generator ground pin, the the motor will change direction.

When you're satisfied that everything is working as expected, power off, remove the PWM generator, small motor, 12V power supply for the motor, etc.... and re-solder the bridge connecting the 380VDC to the H-bridge. You're now ready for action  ^-

I realize that the above test is not a full test, but I wanted to see if the H-bridge can actually operate a motor's speed and direction. Using a small motor of maybe 12V is also safer than the high voltage/current which can come from the H-bridge. It's true that it could fail with the original motor from the G-loc, but I didn't have access to it. Also, I didn't test the over current circuit as I was running out of time  :(

As it happens, this G-loc motor controller belongs to a friend of a friend of mine. It was installed back in to the G-loc by my friend, and I suggested that he replace the small capacitors, as you might remember I had trouble with them.
When my friend opened the other motor controller, he found that a mouse or rat had eaten through the "F" wire from the L2 transformer !!!!! Even worse, the wire was eaten close to the transformer, and also at the other end where it goes into the PCB.
Luckily there was enough wire sticking out from L2 to make a full repair  :D
The capacitors were replaced and everything was put into the G-loc, along with the motor controller I had repaired with Per's replacement L2  ^-^
The machine is back to life  :-)=   It works like new.

I was trying to post a video, but I can't figure it out just now :-[

Thank you again, Per. Without your generous help there would be no hope for us, and thank you to all in the Forum for helping keep these machines running  ^-

Cheers for now.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Lundi 01 Avril 2019, 10:46:54 AM
Hi

Super that the G-loc is back to life :)
I am glad that my L2 transformers worked.  :-)=

Also great with all the fine detail in the restoring process, that might be handy to know someday  ^-

Kind regards
Per
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: corner-tech le Lundi 01 Avril 2019, 16:11:23 PM
Hi All,

Sorry, I forgot to add some useful information regarding the Triac in the motor controller.
Initially I thought the original G-loc Triac was faulty. When testing with my "universal" tester, it showed as a resistor  :(

So I bought a replacement Triac which was a little higher rating: BTA10-600C
It has a metal tab, but it's still insulated like the original.  ^-

Before installing the new Triac, I tested, and found it to measure the same as the original:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190401151740-corner-tech-triac-test-bad.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190401151740-corner-tech-triac-test-bad.jpg)
I thought the new Triac was faulty from the shop  >:D
But then I thought the tester was faulty.
I found an old Triac which I had from another project, TIC226, and the tester detected a good Triac:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190401152404-corner-tech-triac-test-good.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190401152404-corner-tech-triac-test-good.jpg)

Now I begin to think the original Triac and the new BTA10-600C were faulty, but before I complain to the shop, I have to be sure what I'm talking about. Could it be that the tester cannot correctly test sensitive gate Triac's ? The old TIC226 was not a sensitive gate Triac, so that makes me think that there's a design limit with the tester  :-\
I need another way of testing a Triac. A Google search shows there are lot's of simple (low voltage) tests, but I wanted something which would test the Triac under a greater load, but still reasonably safe to operate.

I had a GE3020 (same as a MOC3020) opto-coupler which has a Triac output and can trigger a larger Triac, and the input is isolated, so it's reasonably safe.
Here's an extract from the MOC3020 datasheet:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190401153343-corner-tech-triac-test.JPG) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190401153343-corner-tech-triac-test.JPG)
I built the sensitive-gate version, with a jumper to short out the 2.4K resistor to test older Triac's which need greater trigger current. I used a 390ohm resistor for Rin, so I can use 5VDC to trigger the tester. I also connected a 3mm LED to the input as an indicator so I can confirm when 5V is connected to the input. I also have a small socket for the Triac under test. With this circuit I can test almost any Triac with mains voltage and a few amps of current if I like.
Here's what it looks like:
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20190401154857-corner-tech-triac-tester.JPG) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20190401154857-corner-tech-triac-tester.JPG)
By the way, we have 240VAC mains in Australia, so the 220VAC on the circuit is good. Those in Japan or USA will need to adjust the 180ohm and 2.4K resistors - check the datasheet for the opto-coupler.

With my tester, all Triac's worked, including the original G-loc Triac  :D
Even the old TIC226 tested perfect in the sensitive gate configuration of the circuit.
I put the original G-loc Triac back in the motor controller  ^-^

In the end it was a very good learning experience. I found that some test equipment cannot test what might be expected, and so have to build my own test gear.

Cheers for now.


Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: fiend41 le Vendredi 10 Avril 2020, 19:26:27 PM
c'est pas  tout à fait le sujet   mais la machine peut s'y prêter   (ptet un jour un génie saura faire pareil pour les Afterburner dlx.. )

un gars bosse sur un portage de l'arcade Starwars Orb ES3  (jouable par émulation sur Teknoparrot),  sur sa G-loc,   ça semble lent en tests ?    et plus porté sur ses propres mouvements joysticks , mais ce qui serait déjà intéressant







Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Jeudi 25 Juin 2020, 12:58:09 PM
Hi

If someone needs the eprom code for the eprom that is located on the motor driver board.
Then I have made a dump of my eprom

https://www.dropbox.com/s/87oitu23utdpemj/Sega-gloc-motor-eprom-tms27c256.zip?dl=0

It need to be burned on a 27C256 eprom.

Kind regards
Per
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: perjmolsen le Lundi 18 Janvier 2021, 09:32:41 AM
Hi

Just a small update to the repair log, there is a typo R24 is a 2.2ohm NOT a 220 ohm

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jdwr58zhg2tofkmensh2q/Nomenclature.ods?dl=0&rlkey=tm49vx0ax3kz10vesr5eg5ngx
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: ArcadeMachinist le Jeudi 28 Janvier 2021, 06:50:44 AM
Hello everyone,
I'm sorry for writing in English, but my French is 0.

I'm trying to repair G-Loc motorboard, and little bit stuck, becuase my understanding of analog electronics is not so good.

I have 2 board, one of them now work fine, anotherone has problems with delivering voltage to Q1 gate.
On working board there is +3v after R21b, on the bad one - +0v
Something is sinking +3v to Ground, so Q1 does not open.

Also, on my board R23 and C15 are in series, not parallel as posted here before. D6 is reversed.
My board had Q1 dead (blown), I have replaced it, also replaced L2 transformer with a new one, thanks to Per.

I have changed C15, R23, ZD2, R25, PC1, D4, R22, C16, D6, R28, R27, ZD1, D5 and Q1 with new parts.
Did not help. Something still sinks 3v after R21B to GND.

If I (for testing) remove L2 transformer and R22 resistor - then Q1 gate gets exactly 3 volts, as it should.

What can be wrong?

All circuits after the L2 are tested and work fine.
As a bonus info PC910 optocouplers can be replaced 1-to-1 with Everlight 6N137, they are the exactly same and tested to work fine.

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20210128064501-ArcadeMachinist-GLockMB.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20210128064501-ArcadeMachinist-GLockMB.jpg)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: gc339 le Vendredi 05 Février 2021, 12:06:45 PM
A l'époque où j'ai relevé le schéma du convertisseur BT (https://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=28406.msg453306#msg453306), j'aurai dû accorder plus d'attention au schéma transmis par pn_jeux (https://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=28406.msg452323#msg452323), il m'avait semblé à première vue trop dissemblable. J'aurai dû me rendre compte que la circuiterie autour du primaire du transformateur était quasiment la même ce qui m'aurait évité les erreurs (https://www.gamoover.net/Forums/index.php?topic=36585.msg657389#msg657389) qui ont été trouvées.

J'ai donc redessiné ce schéma en corrigeant ces erreurs pour qu'il soit plus propre et plus compréhensible.


(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/20210205115231-gc339-ConvBT.PNG) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/20210205115231-gc339-ConvBT.PNG)




@ArcadeMachinist

Are you sure the new components are all OK?
Have you checked them before soldering? Especially if they were bought from Chinese sellers on eBay or AliExpress.

Are you also sure that one of the 15 volt power supplies is not shorted? Have you tried to unsolder diodes D3, D9..D11 one by one to check it.



Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: f4brice le Vendredi 05 Février 2021, 12:10:25 PM
Citation de: gc339 le Vendredi 05 Février 2021, 12:06:45 PM
J'ai donc redessiné ce schéma en corrigeant ces erreurs pour qu'il soit plus propre et plus compréhensible.
[...]

Je trouve ce schéma fait main magnifiquement superbe !  :-*
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: ArcadeMachinist le Samedi 06 Février 2021, 22:40:38 PM
Citation de: gc339 le Vendredi 05 Février 2021, 12:06:45 PM
@ArcadeMachinist
Are you sure the new components are all OK?
Have you checked them before soldering? Especially if they were bought from Chinese sellers on eBay or AliExpress.

They are all new, from Mouser, not from China.
I was testing them one-by-one with that transistor/diode/capacitor/resistors tester device.

Citation de: gc339 le Vendredi 05 Février 2021, 12:06:45 PM
Are you also sure that one of the 15 volt power supplies is not shorted? Have you tried to unsolder diodes D3, D9..D11 one by one to check it.

I have tested all secondary circuits, by removing L2, applying 18v from lab power supply to L2 outputs 11,10 and 14,13 -  checking that voltage regulators (IC5, IC6) correcty drive down this 18v to 15v.

12v in case of "fan" output, all of them work.
15v in case of 8,7 outputs.

No shorts. L2 is new from Per.
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: ArcadeMachinist le Lundi 31 Mai 2021, 19:27:48 PM

In case anyone want's to sell me a spare board, or repair mine for a good price - let me know please!  >:D
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: ArcadeMachinist le Vendredi 01 Juillet 2022, 05:00:10 AM
It also looks like not only the enable pin 6 is PWM controlled, but direction pin alternates polarity all the time.

Idle - up/down alternates every 32μs. 32μs up, 32μs down. 64μs full cycle.

When the cab goes up on startup, I'm getting 37.5μs "up", 26.5μs "down", so around 58.5% up.
When it slowly returns back down, it is 30.2μs "up", 33.8μs "down".
There is PWM too, but it is actually insignificent, almost always 100% duty.

So, I guess, the speed is controlled by how much % of the time it spends in up or down direction.

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/v2/2022/07/01/20220701045922-ArcadeMachinist-Screen%20Shot%202022-06-30%20at%209.22.14%20PM.png) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/v2/2022/07/01/20220701045922-ArcadeMachinist-Screen%20Shot%202022-06-30%20at%209.22.14%20PM.png)

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/v2/2022/07/01/20220701045900-ArcadeMachinist-Screen%20Shot%202022-06-30%20at%209.31.25%20PM.png) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/v2/2022/07/01/20220701045900-ArcadeMachinist-Screen%20Shot%202022-06-30%20at%209.31.25%20PM.png)

Or I might just be measuring something wrong :)
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: ArcadeMachinist le Jeudi 11 Août 2022, 23:32:06 PM
I have reproduced the PCB, as a physical 1-to-1 copy.
First used front traces layer from this forum, but it has multiple mistakes, which are now fixed.

Low voltage part works as intended, verified it does trigger MOSFETs in correct order.
(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/v2/2022/08/11/20220811231524-ArcadeMachinist-2022-08-07%2023.09.12.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/v2/2022/08/11/20220811231524-ArcadeMachinist-2022-08-07%2023.09.12.jpg)

High voltage part - with L2 removed - it gives correct 163V** DC voltage at L2 terminals 3 and 4 (main coil).
Once I connect L2 - the board blows 6A fuse, I have set before it (so 8A triac survives each time).

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/v2/2022/08/11/20220811231802-ArcadeMachinist-IMG_1518.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/v2/2022/08/11/20220811231802-ArcadeMachinist-IMG_1518.jpg)

I guess L2 is a part of a "switching power supply" circuit, where "feedback" coil is supposed to help switch Q1 (via Q2) on/off constantly, limiting the input voltage to L2, to the level where it produces desired output.

With something being bad in the "feedback", constant 163VDC is applied to L2, which shortcircuits the full thing.
I have replaced EVERY part in the feedback circuit, with testing new part before soldering.
All the traces and connection verified to match original PCB 1-by-1.
I must be missing something and would appreciate ideas how to test it further.

I have uploaded my KiCAD design here:
https://github.com/ArcadeMachinist/GLoc-Motor-PCB/tree/main/kicad-reproduction

(https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics_gamoovernet890px/v2/2022/08/11/20220811233409-ArcadeMachinist-GLOC_MotorBoard_Render_2.jpg) (https://gamoovernet.pixhotel.fr/pics/v2/2022/08/11/20220811233409-ArcadeMachinist-GLOC_MotorBoard_Render_2.jpg)

Mistakes in top layer, which was published previously in this forum:
L2-1 trace incorrectly goes to via, while it shoud go to ZD2
VR2-3 trace incorrectly goes to C24, while it should go to C23
PC7-2 missing trace to R59

All fixed in the github project.

** See below
Titre: Sega G-loc deluxe motor power supply
Posté par: ArcadeMachinist le Vendredi 19 Août 2022, 04:34:52 AM
Turned out I was getting 163V, becuase TR1 never latched and R1/R2 are removed.
In my good board R1/R2 were dead, I have decided to put new ones - and they are burned immediatly. wtf.
However good board works without R1/R2.

I was able to get 2.7V on Q1 gate and Q1 worked, launching L2 and I was getting 7.1V between pins 5 and 3 or L2 coil. Same as in working board.
But at the time of this experiment I had TR1 removed and after some seconds my Q1 started smoking.
The tester shows it is fine, but looks like it is actually not. Waiting for new Q1 to arrive.